E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
2CC BREAKFAST WITH STEPHEN CENATIEMPO
TUESDAY, 18 OCTOBER 2022

SUBJECTS: NDIS; Industrial Relations Reform; Lake Burley Griffin paddle boats.

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO, HOST: Joining us, as she does on a regular basis, is the federal Member for Canberra, Alicia Payne. Good morning, Alicia.

ALICIA PAYNE MP, MEMEBER FOR CANBERRA: Good morning, Stephen.

CENATIEMPO: You're part of the NDIS Committee. You've been traveling around with these public hearings. Later this month, we're coming to Canberra.

PAYNE: Yeah, that's right. So I'm really pleased that again this term, I'm on the Joint Standing Committee on the NDIS. And a really important role of that committee is hearing from people from around the country about their experiences with the NDIS. And we will be having a public hearing in Canberra next week on the 25th of November. And there'll be a chance for people to, well people can come and listen of course. But if people want to actually make a statement, they can register with the Secretariat. If they just search for Joint Standing Committee on the NDIS Secretariat. And you can come and make a statement to the committee about if you've had an experience with the NDIS that you wish to share. The particular inquiry that we are conducting is into the capability and culture of the NDIA. So it's particularly about identifying the issues there, which we're pretty aware of and Minister Bill Shorten is really putting the work in as a top priority of our government to put people back at the centre of the NDIS and make sure it delivers the choice and control that it promised when it was originally introduced.

CENATIEMPO: Surely the focus needs to be getting rid of all the middlemen? Because that seems to be where the roads and the waste what is happening with this NDIS.

PAYNE: Well, yeah, the minister has identified some areas where there is a bit of rorting going on, not by people with disability, but people who are charging.

CENATIEMPO: No, no, the suppliers.

PAYNE: Yeah. But I think, you know, it's fair to say that, having been on that committee for three years and hearing, absolutely devastating accounts from providers, as well from people in the scheme. But from people all across the board that are involved, that there was an attitude that participants were seen as trying to get things that they shouldn't be entitled to. And that's really wrong. Because that's, often and as any member of parliament I'm sure can attest, because as a local member, you hear a lot of this, that people had to go through huge battles with the NDIA to get the most basic and obvious of support in some cases. So ...

CENATIEMPO: The problem I see there is a human nature issue. Because human nature is you will always try and push the envelope further than you can. And from the perspective of people working at the NDIS, they're always going to have their guard up on the lookout for these kinds of things. So you're almost trying to reinvent human nature here, aren't you?

PAYNE: Well, I think that people at the NDIA do work very hard and have very intense KPIs on them, like not a lot of time to get through the number of plans that they were needing to do. And so lifting the staffing cap is also an important part of addressing that. But I think it's also about empowering them to work with people to get the right plan for them. And that is what the NDIS was always supposed to be about, about empowering people with disability to access the support they need, in an individualised way. And that's what we want to see returned.

CENATIEMPO: One of the criticisms I hear from a lot of people in the particularly in the mental health sphere is that we've extended the NDIS beyond the scope of what it was originally supposed to be. And there are a lot of people that now have access to the NDIS that probably was never designed for. Is there going to be? Because I mean, the reality is the funding of it is going to blow out. There's nothing anybody can do about that in its current form. Is there going to be streamlining in that regard?

PAYNE: I'm not sure that I would say that it's been extended to people who weren't part of the initial objective. I think that we do need to look at, you mentioned mental health. This has been an ongoing issue with some of the programs that used to be available for mental health were rolled into the NDIS when it was introduced back in 2013. But there's something there. So there's three tiers to the NDIS. And tier two was about support in community and a lot of supports that people can access through there and that has been somewhat neglected under the previous government. And that scenario is what we want to rebuild, which has a lot of relevance for people with mental health to access support. That's not sort of strictly through like an NDIS plan, but part of a broader approach to people with disability and the supports that they need across the board in their lives.

CENATIEMPO: Let's talk about this industrial relations omnibus bill. I think Paul Kelly nailed it in The Australian in last week. That it has failed both of its tests. Firstly, that there was no mandate for it. And secondly, that it's bad policy. And that's evidenced by the fact that there was 30 pages of amendments a week after it was implemented. Is this going to go through the Senate? Because it doesn't look like you've sold, David Pocock and Jacqui Lambie on it?

PAYNE: Well, it might surprise you, Stephen, I'm going to disagree with both those statements. We absolutely had a mandate for this, because the Australian people have been waiting for a wage rise for over 10 years. And that is a key priority of ours, which we made before the election. And part of that is job security. And these are two of the key objectives of this bill is: getting wages moving again, modernising our workplace relations system, increasing job security, and ...

CENATIEMPO: I gotta stop you there. When you say modern modernising it, you're taking it back to 1970s style, collective bargaining. That's hardly modernising.

PAYNE: Now, I don't think that's right. This is about getting the balance, right, again, because we've seen the number of agreements go down massively, and people don't have the power to get basic conditions and wage increases that they should be getting. When an economy is managed properly, wages increase, and we have seen wages stalled for around 10 years now. So this is about getting the balance right, again, getting bargaining right again. There are lots of safeguards in it. So we're not going back to 1970s style ...

CENATIEMPO: But how do you get the balance right when the unions get everything they want and every single business group is saying this is bad policy? There's clearly no balance there.

PAYNE: Well, I don't think that's true that every business group is saying it's bad policy and there is ...

CENATIEMPO: Business Council of Australia, who might as well be an arm of the ALP is saying that it's bad. The COSBOA is saying it's bad. The Australian Industry Group is saying it's bad. The National Farmers Federation is saying it's bad. There's not too many more business groups left.

PAYNE: Well, there's a lot of inbuilt support, particularly for small business in it. And we have worked with employer groups. And when you mentioned that there have been all these amendments, that is part of the parliamentary process. And we have been working openly with every member of parliament and these groups that you mentioned on it, and discussing it ...

CENATIEMPO: Not 30 pages worth a week after you submit the bill?

PAYNE: Well, it's a complex area of legislation. And I think that's not unexpected. And I think the fact that we're having those conversations and making some of those amendments shows that we're a government that, as we should be, are working with all members of parliament to get the best piece of legislation that we can and with stakeholders.

CENATIEMPO: But don't you do that first before you submit the legislation with good policy?

PAYNE: No, you put the exposure draft out so people can see what you're proposing in full. And we have seen as well. So we started calling for submissions to this in the lead up to the Jobs and Skills Summit. So let's not forget that a couple of months ago, we had a huge conversation with people representing business, unions, all kinds of groups came to Canberra and had that discussion over three days. And in the lead up to that there was submissions.  We are constantly meeting, the ministers responsible, the Prime Minister and all members, are meeting with people and listening to their concerns and ideas about this legislation.

CENATIEMPO: Let's talk about something positive. And I've got to say, I've got to admit, I didn't know they existed these Lake Burley Griffin paddleboats. But they look different now.

PAYNE: Yeah, well, I don't know if you call yourself a Canberran, Stephen, but this is an iconic activity for Canberra.

CENATIEMPO: I've only been here for years, so give me time.

PAYNE: You probably don't then, you probably don't. But this is was one of my best memories from childhood, was going out on the paddle boats on Lake Burley Griffin. So they're these little boats that sort of paddle like like you're riding a bike around.

CENATIEMPO: Yeah yeah.

PAYNE: ... and they have just had a makeover with each of our national institutions decorating one boat. So they look fantastic. But they're also a way, sort of like a floating billboard to advertise our national institutions, which you can spot many of as you go around the lake. So it's about bringing together to Canberra icons, to promote the wonderful things we have here in the nation's capital.

CENATIEMPO: I think it's a terrific idea. I'd be terrified I'd get stuck out in the middle of the lake and wouldn't be able to pedal back. But beyond that, I think it's, it sounds great.

PAYNE: They are fun and you get them just near Regatta Point. The Regatta Point jetty is where people can go and and hire one.

CENATIEMPO: Well, you've convinced me when the weather improves a little bit I'm gonna go out and try one of those things.

PAYNE: Sounds good.

CENATIEMPO: Good on you Alicia. We'll catch up again in a couple weeks

PAYNE: Thanks Stephen.

CENATIEMPO: Alicia Payne, the federal Member for Canberra.